The Art of Mental Reframes: Shifting Stories and Finding Freedom (Ft. Steph - Soul's Haven)

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Meaghan (00:57): Hello, hello, welcome to the Venusian Womb podcast. Another week, another Friday, and this week we have a really special guest with us here today. There's so much we could say. This connection with Steph has been so divinely orchestrated since the beginning, and that's a whole story on its own that we're not going to get into today. Still, the love, the admiration, the inspiration that we have towards Steph and I'm pretty sure I see Milena nodding so it's collective, is so grand that we couldn't help but have, we wanted her on this podcast so badly. And we're definitely going to want her on future episodes as well because she has helped move so much in us in the very short time we've known her and the very few times we've met in person. And we wanted to bring her magic and her medicine on to the podcast.

So Steph, I'd love to send it over to you to introduce yourself, where you are here now in this earthly plane and just share a little bit about yourself, whatever it is that's alive for you.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (02:02): Wow, thank you. What a beautiful introduction. I feel the love, and it's so reciprocated. Such an honour to have crossed paths with you both and to be on this journey together, which is both magical and messy in the best of ways. So thank you. Thank you to you. Thank you to the universe.

So who am I? Yeah, my name is Steph. I'm the founder of the Souls Haven. It's a wellness alley just outside of Montreal. Here we curate restorative, heart-centred experiences and essentially invite people to just rest, realign and reconnect with what truly matters. We host events, some are mindful practices, and sometimes energy sound healing.

We have rejuvenating amenities and really just offer opportunities for an immersion so that people can kind of walk themselves back home to their hearts and to each other. And yeah, I guess my mission is to bridge the seen and the unseen to help humanity remember their true essence and inspire a genuine connection really through community and through authentic relating. I think that there's infinite potential in all of us and I think we just need a chance to feel safe enough that we can remember it.

Milena (03:40): Thank you so much, Steph. I mean, Meaghan and I, had the honour of going to the Souls Haven and staying there for a few days. And it was beyond, it was beyond any of our expectations that we had of this space. And I'm not just talking about like the actual space itself and the amenities that are there and just the nature that's around, but also just the energy, the energy of this land, the energy that has gone into curating the space and it's so felt right when you step foot on that land. And I did just want to say that the Souls Haven, it was definitely a space that I feel like held, it held all of us, like it held all of us so beautifully in just what we were meant to experience there and the things that we were meant to work through while we were there. And I'm excited, I'm excited to get into a little bit about just also beyond this space, just the way that Steph, the way that you hold that space and the ways that you lead within the soul's haven because the medicine that you bring is unlike, it's beyond ego, which is so beautiful because I feel like you have this way of just offering such an expanded perspective.

And when Meaghan and I came to Soul's Haven, we were going there with the intention of also seeing what creation would come through in terms of a space that we want to hold. And what we got from that was the clarity of what that creation or co-creation would even look like, as well as also just so much more perspective in terms of how to leave that experience with such a greater, heart-centred perspective of life and just the initiations that we were going through at that time. And one of the things that stood out the most, at least to myself, and this is going a little bit, a little bit different from, guess, our current structure and order of how we're going to go through this conversation. But one of the things that stood out the most was just the way, Steph, that you have this way of shifting perspective.

It's this way of just, and it's shifting perspective slash expanding perspective beyond the stories around circumstantially space time, what's happening in this moment, and the stories of the ego around those circumstances. And I really just wanted to, I guess, open, open some space for conversation around what that process has looked like for you in your life of being able to kind of incorporate these reframes for yourself and for us when we were there.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (06:30): Yeah, thank you. I mean, I wasn't always a reframer. I would refrain from reframing back in the day. And, and ultimately, I think through through the divine lessons of life and just always surrendering. I've arrived to a place where now I'm able to reframe and I cherish reframing and I'm able to step outside of my own stories and really look to the mirrors, to the disco ball that is life. ⁓ And it's changed my life since I started doing that. 

I mean, I guess a good, a good place to start would be, you know, what is, you know, holding a mirror and what does it mean to have to, sit outside of yourself and to look at what life is reflecting back at you. It's my new favorite. How are you? How are you? What is the world reflecting back to you right now? This way of just kind of taking a big deep breath in and realizing it's not personal, it's planetary.

Milena (07:45): Mmm. I love that.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (07:50): So, yeah, and then like consciously just being able to accept that we're sovereign beings and that we get to choose how we see life. And that doesn't erase pain. It's not spiritual bypassing. It's a matter of sitting with our pain. It's a matter of looking at what reality is presenting to us, feeling into that and then ultimately sending it love and compassion, surrendering to the divine orchestration and knowing that you're just walking home to yourself.

Meaghan (08:34): I'd love to propose maybe a question or how we can all go deeper because I know a lot of with the word surrender. For me, surrendering feels empowering. It feels like I'm giving it over. But there is a lot of people that frame that as weakness and seeing it as you're weak to surrender or how could you how could surrender surrendering be powerful? And I'd be curious to get both your takes on how surrender if it feels empowering for you as well or if it feels something differently.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (08:40): Yeah.

Meaghan (09:03): And to reframe that weakness that a lot of people still cling or see surrender as weakness.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (09:09): Hmm, I love that. As a former control freak, you know, I was coordinating, I was playing God, I was on top of everything. was visualizing, I could see outcomes, would sit, I would focus, I would set intention, and I would manipulate every single thing that would happen. And nothing, or not nothing, but most things would not go according to plan.

Milena (09:15): Same.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (09:37): And in those moments, I would have to ultimately surrender. Or, find myself at the end of what I thought was going to look like ABCDE, look back and say, well that actually worked out so perfectly and ended up being so much better that this happened this way and that happened that way and that happened that way. And wow, so beautiful. Why did I try so hard to force something rather than going with the flow? So I was then also invited to surrender. So surrendering was happening even when I was trying to orchestrate.

And so now I see power in stepping back and just surrendering from the beginning. Does that mean sitting back and doing nothing? Absolutely not. It means showing up with intention. It means putting in my best effort. It means leading from my heart. But the intention is different. It's not trying to control that outcome. It's allowing what's meant to happen happen, knowing that I showed up fully in the best that I could in that moment with a desire to move something forward or create or create in whatever way creation looks like. mean, that could be getting together with community, that could be working on a work project, that could be a project, that could be, right? Like any task at hand, that could be cleaning the house, et cetera, yeah. What about you, Molina?

Milena (11:02): So what's coming through right now also is that a big part of this process of surrender is also trusting that life is happening for you and trusting that while these stories, because the ego, of how self-aware we may become, and how many beautiful mirrors we may have in our life of people that we can openly share ourselves with and receive perspective from. Despite that awareness, the ego is still always gonna be there. And it has these stories, and the stories are ultimately there to protect us. So those stories, despite the fact that they may feel like they're holding us back, they are trying to keep us safe in a way.

So it's also being able to recognize the stories that may be valid and may be justified and still recognizing that while these stories might be valid and circumstantially things are playing out in the ways that they are, that I am not a victim to it. And I find that that's something that needs to be clarified in terms of surrender is knowing that surrendering is actually one of the most empowering.

One of the like, it's one of the greatest doorways to step into your power because you're really choosing to trust in the fact that everything is happening for you, even when it may be uncomfortable, and it may be initiating you to step up in certain ways. That is also that is the power that is the reclaiming of your power.

And that's a beautiful way to also soften a bit more in the surrender process of I'm not softening because I'm giving up and because I'm a victim of what's going on. But I'm softening because I have this deep trust in the ways that this is leading me to exactly where it is I want to go and also trusting in myself, like trusting in myself to be able to hone in in these opportunities to basically, yeah, have self trust in knowing that whatever comes up, you are able to be adaptable and to be shaped, I guess, be be taught how to show up in a different way so that you are more prepared for the outcome that it is that you want.

Meaghan (12:54): Mm-hmm.

Milena (13:24): And I feel like this whole reframe of victim and the ego stories, because the ego is so good at making up these stories. It's like that shift from victim to an empowered being that where that shift isn't actually more control, it's letting go.

And so I'm really curious to see how we can kind of bring this doorway in of how these perspective shifts, they actually are letting go of that victim. They're letting go of those stories of suffering and of pain that we all experience, regardless of our level of self-awareness. This is just something that's part of being human. And it's something that we need to learn how to navigate with in this human experience.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (14:10): I love that.

Meaghan (14:10): And you can love your stories. You can love your stories of suffering and pain. I love my stories of suffering and pain. Like there's so many of them that I'm not ready to let go of. And that's why even like being like hearing the word victim, there's like shame that pops up at the same time. Cause I'm like, but like, what if I like to be, and then to admit that you like to play the victim, that you like to be in that, that's a whole other place, whole other ballpark, but it's so interesting how that all is happening at the same time.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (14:38): Hmm. And then recognizing that having that awareness. So I think a good one sometimes is Yeah, like, wanting attention, and then how do we show up to get attention that validation so that could be through, ⁓ through acts that feel a bit more grand like dancing and singing or could be through like, well, I get attention when I'm sick, people care for me when I'm sick.

So what story am I gonna tell? ⁓ And then recognizing that in yourself, okay, well, where is this coming from? Why am I doing that? Because I want attention. Well, is there anything wrong with wanting attention? No. Can I love myself for wanting attention? Yes. Can I show myself compassion for wanting attention? Yes. Doesn't everybody want attention? Yes. ⁓ Yeah, so, and then just reframing like that and taking a step back and saying, okay, well, then that's just a human thing.

Now with this knowing, with this sense of looking back in the mirror, and the mirror is so beautiful because, well, we'll go to mirrors later, hold on. But the layers, the layers. But I think, so to your point, Melina, which I deeply appreciate, from an energetic standpoint, for me, surrendering vibrates like incoherence. It's bringing the brain and the heart into a rhythm.

Meaghan (15:46): Hahahaha

Milena (15:46): A whole other other hole.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (16:05): And that can actually be measured by your heart rate. So that's really cool. And then, spiritually, as you were speaking to, it's essentially trusting in the divine law. It's knowing that the universe is working for us, not against us. And from a creation perspective, what's so interesting about surrender is when we surrender, when we harness all of that energy, that power, that force, that we would otherwise be expelling and controlling and worrying and stressing and manipulating outcomes, suddenly all of that energy is harnessed, and it becomes inspiration. It becomes creativity. It allows for flow. And so it's so empowering. It's so empowering.

Milena (16:55): And I just want to say that some of the best creations that have come through in this world have come from that rock bottom moment where you have no choice but to surrender.

You have no choice but to surrender. And that is so beautiful to be able to harness all of that resistance to kind of generally speak on all of these different emotions, to harness all of that resistance and to actually have it grow you, have it teach you something, have it shape you in some way where you're able to create something from it.

Even if that's recreating yourself, recreating a particular, maybe a particular story that is coming through or limitation and being able to redefine that. So it's so beautiful to see how, yeah, how so much of the best art has come from these particular moments where people have had to surrender and beautiful, beautiful art has come from it.

So yeah, it's a it's definitely a beautiful process when we're able to actually use that energy for something that is serving our forward evolution and our growth and is inspiring a bunch of people in the process of it. Like how beautiful is that to share that alchemy with others and to hopefully inspire that alchemy in them and so on and then it just kind of ripples out in the world.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (18:23): And to remember that it's part of the human experience and that we're not alone in that and that we've chosen this and that this is ultimately our playground. And that these feelings and these emotions and these resistances are just passing over us. They are not us. They are just passing over us in a moment in time. And if we can just watch it pass over us without attaching a story to it. That it can be transmuted almost instantaneously and turned into beautiful art and creation.

Meaghan (18:55): To feed off of that. I'd love to just add a quick thing there. Something I had seen that I've been working at bringing in is that instead of saying I am sad or I am angry, anger is passing through me, sadness is passing through me, so that it's not a clinging to that emotion or that feeling and putting it in the body and saying this is a state of being that I am in, it's I'm in flow, this is moving through me, because emotion is energy in motion.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (19:26): Yeah, and I mean, to show how far the English language has come in old Celtic rituals and ⁓ literature, they did not say, I am sad. They said, I have sadness on me. I have anger on me. I have happiness on me. So that we don't become attached to these different states of being, but rather just witness them for what they are with reverence.

Meaghan (19:42): Yes, you will remember using them.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (19:53): And when we take that step back and witness these feelings with reverence, we become less connected to the emotion as the human experience and more just aware of the range of possibilities.

Milena (20:08): So I do have a question for those of us that are exploring, bringing awareness to these moments where we're being called to surrender, where we're being faced with these stories that are coming from our mind and our ego trying to keep us safe and feeling the emotional uprising of all of these emotions that come through when we're meeting resistance, when we're in these moments where we're trying to control and that control freak is dying because there is nothing to control.

Sometimes there are moments like that where it's like, actually, this is out of my control. And so in those moments where we're bringing this awareness to that whole experience on an emotional level, on a story level, mental level, how do we how do we meet that? Like, you talk about this instantaneous transmuting of those stories. And for those of us that this might be new, and we don't have the practice of doing that it's something that may take a bit of time to actually get to. So I'm curious, Steph, if you have any, maybe any advice or any tips for someone that's like really just starting to really meet themselves in this moment, what would you say to them?

Steph - The Souls' Haven (21:24): Yeah, I would say show yourself love and compassion. We were not historically programmed, taught, given the opportunity to learn this from an early age. And it takes time. And we're all human. And sometimes we're able to do it on the spot and other times it takes a little bit longer depending on the experiences that we're going through. And all of that is perfect. All of that is okay.

Really just coming back to that place of loving compassion for the self. But yeah, so reframing, again, like I think the thing with transmuting is to remember that it's not erasing the pain. We are going to have feelings. We are going to feel happy, sad, frustrated, jealous, tired. And the invitation is to really just witness it and just say, I have this on me right now. Not, I am sad and tired because da da da da, but I have this on me right now. And it's actually wild how quickly that feeling will soften once it's seen. So that tightness in your throat, that weight on your chest, ⁓ the squeezing in your heart, if you're having, you know, if you're feeling a bit unloved or not loving yourself.

If you have a rising of a desire to cry, just seeing it and calling it out and giving it a name without creating a story, I think is the first invitation. And then the more we do that, the more that becomes a new habit for us. So reframing is definitely how we alchemize energy. So taking something that feels like a pain or an emotion moving over us and turning it into wisdom, but on an actual neuroscience level.

It's super powerful because these acts of witnessing it on us versus taking it and running with it as a story of what's happening to us literally rewires our brain. So every time we choose this higher perspective, this perspective of love and compassion, this perspective of this is the human experience, we strengthen a new neural pathway of safety, trust, and ultimately possibility.

So I think, and I think, you know, I think we brought this up a little bit earlier about like the aspect of bypassing reality. So reframing really isn't about bypassing reality. It's really about just sitting with the feelings and then reauthoring it. Realigning with what's happening and creating coherence between what's happening in the body, what's happening in the mind and then ultimately knowing that as within, so without, what's happening within us is going to be reflected back to us by the world around us.

Meaghan (24:25): Mm-hmm.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (24:26): Hehehehehe. And that reflection back, this is where things become increasingly, as we could say, maybe more challenging. Because what's being reflected back is aspects of ourselves that are asking to be integrated and seen through love and compassion. So every trigger that we have is really just an invitation to heal. Just to be seen, just to be heard, to be felt with love and compassion. And to be transmuted, just like that.

And as you practice this, as you invite this into your life, it becomes easier and easier. And at the same time, there's still situations where it's difficult. With your partner, with your biggest mirrors, your family, your significant others, with our pets. With our pets as well.

Milena (25:25): Thank you.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (25:31): The triggers are more present, the triggers are more real, and the triggers are pushing things even deeper inside. But nevertheless, it's an invitation to heal.

Milena (25:44): I do just want to say that I feel like in this process, it's the yes and. So it's like, it's yes, there's these stories that are playing out. And I would say that the stories are really they live in the mind. And then there's like the emotions that are coming through, which can feel like this soup of just like, emotions. And sometimes there's multiple emotions that are being felt at the same time that it's hard sometimes to discern even exactly what they are.

Feels like this overwhelming, overcast blanket of just like heavy energy. And it's so interesting when we're in that space is like that can exist. And that probably will be there, especially if you haven't been practicing this reframing, but it's the yes and. So it's like, how can that experience be present and also expand expanding perspective to let me meet my humaneness with love and compassion.

Because ultimately, again, it's these are the parts of us that are wanting to be seen. And there may be lessons for us in that process, you know, like sometimes that rock bottom moment may come from a big lesson of I maybe I hurt someone. And so that's part of the lesson of I was hurtful to someone else and I'm having to sit with these emotions. And sometimes you want to fix something right away and just have it get to the outcome, you know, get to the outcome where it's fixed and it's, good and we're moving on and everything's back to being like high vibe. And in those moments where that's not possible, it's like, okay, well, I can't control this outcome right now.

And so because of that, how can I detach from that and just be in the process? And then the being in the process is how can I add this perspective? How can there maybe be both where there is this difficulty as I'm moving through it and meeting myself and meeting the messy and also understanding that this is a moment for me to learn and this is a moment for me to meet myself and to have love for the ways that as humans we are all imperfect.

And that's even more helpful because our egos can tend to be self-centered sometimes and we forget that actually, despite the fact that we're all trying to be as conscious and weak as we can and live in our hearts, that we are all human and that we are all learning. We're all here in this earth school, walking each other home, learning these lessons of how to be more in the expression of love. And it's really like when we're not able, so what I'm trying to say is when we're not able to reframe immediately sometimes, it's how can we at least hold both?

How rather than just like, I'm just, felt the emotion and all the heaviness and now I've alchemized it and now that's not present, that might not be the case right away, but how can we have that and also have this other perspective? And then it's just as much as we can trying to what we are putting our attention on is where energy is going. So how can we continuously tap into this reframe that we're creating for ourselves? And then it's a matter of strengthening the reframe more than we're strengthening the story of.

Milena (29:04): This sucks. And it's the yes and they can both exist. But now how can we practice more of the one until eventually, that just kind of becomes there is this neural wiring that's happening how that eventually that becomes more second nature. And that's also the humility of this path is that you got to practice it. It's not something that we are born knowing how to do. It's not something that we're taught very young. And it's something that we kind of figure out as we stumble along the way. And that's, that's, that's the humility of being a beginner. And this is a beautiful thing to be a beginner at, because it does lead to more surrender. And it does lead to more space to be able to be in the messy and also grow from it grow from that awareness rather than shaming yourself for having it because it's human.

It's human and I feel like a big part of this is just giving permission for each of us to be human and to have compassion for each other in our humanity.

Meaghan (30:06): I'm noticing as you both, like I agree, but there's also such a huge, I've been dissociating so much because I feel like there's a whole step before all of this, like the reframe, there's like, the nervous system gets flooded with emotion. And then you go into fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and then there's no space to actually reframe. There's no actual space to take that witnessing because you're in such a state of survival, especially once you start allowing yourself to feel.

Because feelings can feel so threatening, especially if they're poking at old wounds. So not only are you feeling what's happening in that moment, you're feeling the threat of the past and the past and the past and all of these things, which inevitably the stories are gonna come up in the mind, because the mind is gonna wanna rationalize and make sense of everything. But to honour that, maybe before even trying to reframe, before even trying to bring compassion, just honouring, I'm flooded right now. My nervous system is flooded.

I can't feel anything. am numb and being with that before even moving to something next because I know I feel the truth as you guys are both speaking, but I'm like, but there's no way I'm there. There's no way like in this moment. There's no way there's anything going to be reframed right now until I honour the fact that there is literal shutdown and I want to just give that for because I know there's a lot of people that are going to be like, but how how do you be the bring the compassion bring all of this when it's not even accessible in the body yet.

Milena (31:33): It's a process. It's a process. that's the thing too, is that the nervous system, especially again, the nervous system, it has the somatic memory. So there are certain experiences that are triggering these old wounds. And so that is going to intensify the emotions of what's currently here in this moment, because of the fact that it's like, well, I'm feeling all these emotions. It's like soup of emotions from this experience and also from the same wound that is from the past that is being triggered from this present experience. And the thing is, again, regardless of how conscious we may be, our nervous system is something that we have to train. It's body memory.

And when we've grown up having these intense experiences in our lives that, you know, they stay in the body. And this is something that, you know, staff we were talking about is that sometimes part of that process is honoring how can I take the best care of myself while I'm in the state of shutdown? Because in that moment, that's the most loving and compassionate thing that you can do is rather than shaming yourself or judging yourself for not being able to immediately go into the reframe and move forward and move on. Again, it's not about the initial situation happening. It's about what's being activated in you from your whole life, from like the past.

It's and that's an opportunity to process those things to process those triggers from the past so that you can be more liberated in the present. But before that, it's how can I meet myself with compassion and just take the time, take care of myself? And that takes time. That does take time to and it looks different for everyone. But yeah, for sure, honoring that part before going on to the next step, because it's not even accessible when you're in that state. That's the reality.

Meaghan (33:28): Nope.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (33:29): Yeah, no, for sure. When the feelings are coming up, I mean, it's completely somatic. It's completely real. It's anchoring yourself in whatever ways you can. If an emotion needs to be expressed, it's like taking a pillow and screaming into it. It's moving the body. It's shaking the body. It's curling up in a ball. It's crying. It's messy. It's real. It's expression. It's the emotion in motion. It's moving it through. And we have to, have to give in to that.

No longer is it be quiet, go to your room, swallow that. No, it needs to be expressed. And there is a time and a place to express for sure, but it needs to be expressed in whatever way feels right for you. And it's tapping into that, that, that primal energy.

Meaghan (34:04): Mm-mm.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (34:19): And pushing it out while holding it, rocking it, rocking it and saying, okay, this is where I'm at. And at the same time, like, and this is going to move through me and knowing that it's in motion. And I think once we have those practices down pat,

Once we are able to sit with the emotions that are rising in whatever way they're rising and we have practices to express them and also anchor ourselves back to our breath, then we have the capacity to know what's the next step. Okay, love, compassion, reframing. What is this trying to show me? But you're so right, Meaghan. No, the emotions have to happen and...

Meaghan (35:05): Yeah. And then I'm getting stuck. I'm sorry. I'm getting stuck. What if you don't have that space to do it? What if there's no space to do it and you...

Yeah, that's where I'm just like, okay, that's all dandy and great and lovely. Environment, no, environment, like, yeah, environment, space. yeah, like I, I'm very much in this space where I'm so lucky to have the space to do that. But I know a lot of people don't. And then I feel like there's almost this like, achiness of like,

Milena (35:23): Are we talking environment, physical environment or internal space? Okay.

Meaghan (35:48): Tell people this could help you, but it's like great, I see how it could, but where could I do this? Because expression is so shunned and shame, people's expressions is just shamed, that it's how can we invite people to create spaces if they don't have spaces?

Steph - The Souls' Haven (36:07): So that really resonates when I was ⁓ an adolescent, as I'm sure many of you will resonate with. There was no opportunity for expression. Any expression of emotion was another reason to be punished or grounded. I often found myself obsessively brushing my teeth as an outlet. So where do you go when you can't go somewhere?

What's really interesting is the science behind journaling. How effective journaling is at releasing and transmuting almost instantaneously.

So writing is a really beautiful outlet. So if you feel like in that moment, know, most of us can get into our bed, we can cry, we can scream into a pillow. I do feel like those are kind of, right? And then from those places to anchor ourselves in breath, but what then? How do we see the light at the end of that emotional flooding tunnel? Journaling is really, really powerful. Surrounding ourselves with friends.

Meaghan (37:00): Yes.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (37:18): Who are also open to reframing, who are safe spaces, who maybe can just listen, lend an ear without offering any unsolicited advice, just to receive, just to hold space, I think is another really, really important ⁓ support system. ⁓ But I really cannot underscore enough journaling. Journaling.

Meaghan (37:29): Yeah.

Milena (37:45): Also want to add nature. Nature. If you don't have a home environment or a space where you live that feels like, where you feel like you can really just be in the full expression of whatever emotions are coming through.

My God, it's so underrated to just go into a forest and just scream your heart out and just let it out and let yourself really tap into that like primitive element. Because again, like that, our brains are perceiving this current situation as a threat. And despite the fact that it's not going to kill us, for the most part, our body is responding to it as if it as if it is as if we are an immediate threat. And so our nervous system is in the state of fight or flight and shock. And so sometimes one of the most beautiful things to do is tap into that primitive side, tap into that animalistic nature and just let yourself roar, let yourself rage, let yourself be out in a forest. And Meaghan and I, we would do this all the time when we'd go to the forest and stay in our womb cave and we were tapping into these archetypes.

And I find that a really helpful one, at least for myself as a wild woman archetype. If I'm feeling like I need to let out some really intense emotion. it's again, rage is not something that is very socially acceptable in our society. If I were to go out into my backyard and start raging my heart out, my neighbours would be concerned. They'd be like, this woman is in mental distress, in severe mental distress. But you know, and again, and I have the privilege of having a backyard, but it's still there's still people.

Meaghan (39:16): 911? Yeah, my neighbours are going crazy.

Milena (39:31): That and again people that that kind of level of expression makes them uncomfortable. And it makes me uncomfortable when I'm expressing it, but it's also recognizing the value of it. And so it's like, let me just, let me just give it my all and just be untamed for the sake of discharging. nature, nature is definitely one of those spaces. Even if it's, I mean, we're in winter season right now, but even in the winter, like just being able to be outside, get that fresh air, be in a space where you can kind of have some privacy and give yourself that opportunity of I'm going to give myself even five minutes, five minutes of untamed expression of whatever is here and really just letting yourself discharge and we're really just complex animals.

Like if we look at predator versus prey in the wilds, the prey after being chased by predator, if it has the capacity to escape, these animals are shaking their body like viscerally, like there's such a strong discharge of energy from that trauma of being chased that they need to do that to survive, to actually move forward and continue to carry on in their life and meet their needs.

So it's interesting how we really are animals and we're really retraining safety into our nervous system. We're to the mind, like consciously, we're like, I'm not gonna die, like this is fine. Like this is just a really shitty moment and the moment is fleeting and just like everything it's impermanent and it'll pass. And the mind may be conscious of that and the body is acting.

Completely differently. And this is where there's the coherence, right? Like in that space, there's incoherence between the stories of the mind and just what we're seeing, like really in real time, versus what we're feeling. And that's where these outlets for discharging and having these resources, it helps to be able to bring the mind and the body into a bit more coherence of we've let this like really intense fear and energy to be discharged. Well, now there's a bit more grounding.

Even after you've had a really good cry, if you guys had one of those, like really good cry, I'm talking like, like one of those where like snotty air, all the things and just like the relief that comes after that, after having that good cry, it's like, okay, that was good. Like that, that is, those are the things that bring you into that space of relief. And it feels more grounding.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (42:04): Yeah, yeah. And I think in so many ways, we weren't also taught how to name our emotions either. There are like six core emotions, and then they branch out into all these other emotions. ⁓ yeah, being able to and not putting the pressure on yourself to be able to discern between all the emotions, but just to kind of get the core six down.

And being able to name those feelings in your body when they're coming up. That level of just witnessing being like, okay, yeah, like I have sadness on me right now, we'll start to calm the nervous system because you're not denying a reality, you're connecting, that's creating coherence with the body. You're saying like, okay, I see you, that is sadness, okay. And then that almost gives yourself permission to then kind of lean into the sadness a bit so that you can transmute it through journaling, through just going and sitting outside with your hands on the earth grounding.

Through taking a stroll in the park and just leaning up against the tree with your back on the tree, knowing that Mother Nature is here to hold and support you. ⁓ The journaling is so fascinating because now science has it backed as reducing stress and cortisol and the act of slow, focused writing regulates breathing and heart rate and actually activates your parasympathetic regulation.

So, you know, I don't know if you guys can see, but like it's now winter. So yes, going outside and maybe sitting on the ground and putting my hands in the ground or walking on barefoot like I always do is not really a possibility, but feeling the emotion, crying, screaming into a pillow, dancing around and then journaling; can go a long, long way. And then again, going back to that neuroplasticity, once we get into a bit of a routine of doing that, of reacting and connecting to our emotions in this new expanded way, then that becomes the new way that we regulate, that we self-regulate, that we hold space for ourselves, we rock like a baby. I'm trying to think of the word in English, but, that we rock ourselves. Yeah, back into coherence.

Meaghan (44:21): I like that.

Milena (44:23): And I do want to say that in a world of immediate gratification, this is not something that you're going to do this practice and you're going to feel perfect right away.

Because like I've definitely had those moments where I'm having, I'm going through like some pretty big heartbreak and there's sadness and there's grief and there's anger and disappointment and all of these emotions that come with their charge with intensity. And I've sat under a tree and I've let out a good cry in public, may I also add, because then eventually you get to a point where you're like, I don't even care about being perceived. I just need to be in this and honour what's here. And you know, and I've had that good cry and been under a tree and been like, well, I don't feel better.

Why I'm doing all the things and like it comes to the point of like, I've checked it off my list and none of these are making me feel better. And that's also where it's just kind of, know, having, having patients, having patients with the process and recognizing that like building any habit, like training any, any practice is it, does take some time. And especially when what's being activated are things that are heavy, like they're, they're lived experiences that may have had a very strong.

And it's also honoring the fact that, yeah, like these are not things that are going to just immediately go away if we're thinking of actually sustainable embodiment and change of how to retrain this new way of being. This is really a new way of being, of being human, is being able to transmute these things as they come and honoring our humanity and having patience with the process of this incoherent state between mind and body and then showing up from this place of love and doing these practices and then having patience because it takes time and time is also this other factor that I think is important to bring into the conversation because we live in a time where if I wanted to get something I can just get it on my phone and have it come and be shipped to my house tomorrow. It's convenient, it's quick, it's instant.

Whereas this, us as humans, we are not robots. And that there is a level of patience and training that is required to be in this new way of being. And I think that the most empowering part of all of this is that it's possible. Like, yes, it could feel disempowering to be in the process of retraining and showing up. And like not maybe getting the immediate change of state right away. And then the frustration of I'm still in this and why do I still care about this and why does it still affect me and all these things. And then also recognizing that, you know, this is a new way of being and that it is something that is gonna take some practice and having these resources and support and people you can talk to, it helps, it helps catalyze that a little bit more, but having patience with yourself because this is definitely not something that's like, alchemy, I am now not affected by my own humanity. Although that would be great. But it'll be that much worth it when you do get there.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (47:40): Yeah. Yeah, so much of what you're saying, I just keep hearing loving compassion, loving compassion, with with the time with the process with the feelings with the lessons. Just just just, think if we can all come back to loving compassion for ourself. I have the most amount of compassion for everybody else. You tell me your stories. I'm like, my god, girl, like I feel you. I see you. Yes, yes. Give yourself love. Give yourself compassion. People don't get over this like that mirror that we give back to others. You know, that's why sharing these stories and our life experiences and our learnings with others is so valuable because they often mirror back the love and compassion that we are often incapable of showing ourselves, as we set those standards so high for ourselves. And so, you know, that brings me to like, women in community and connection.

You know, how it's so important for our souls evolution, for our journey back home to ourselves is through sisterhood.

Meaghan (48:44): Mm-hmm.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (48:57): Because sisters hold the most amount of love and compassion, they will remind you that that is the very thing that you are often incapable of giving to yourself.

Meaghan (49:10): Hmm, I definitely want to jump in here because vulnerability y'all I'm dissociated as fuck and this is we're gonna still post this episode because this is how I'm showing up right now I'm not hearing anything y'all are really saying at all Because I'm there's that love and compassion. That's the only thing I think I've keyed in in the past like 20 minutes That's not coming for me right now, and that's okay. I'm not

I'm not gonna receive it from myself. I'm not gonna give it to myself. So I'm just gonna be here and witness. And that's all I have capacity for right now. And I think this is a big part of this process of everything we're talking about, especially the time. Cause even when you said time, I just went in my head, I'm like, fuck the time. I'm fucking tired of the time. I'm tired of all this bullshit. I'm tired of the lessons. I'm tired of the mirrors because everything's a mirror. So I'm tantruming inside internally right now as fuck.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (50:05): I love it. I love it.

Meaghan (50:06): Wanting to stay present, feeling that Meaghan, you're recording a podcast right now, but this is what's here and this is what it's gonna bring up too. I hear, especially in sisterhood, in circles, and it's this, I feel like even just this right now is mirroring a lot of we spent some time together a month ago. And yes, community connection with sisters in that mirroring and that reflection of where you're not extending yourself love and compassion and just honouring, yep, you're right, I'm not, and sitting with that. And that's what's coming up for me right now.

Milena (50:46): Thank you so much. And this is one of the things that I feel like I so deeply appreciate about co-creating, being in co-creation with Meaghan. And babe, I wanna celebrate, I genuinely wanna celebrate the fact that you could even bring that here because that is, that is part, like that's literally part of this. Like that frustration of like, I'm sick and tired of doing the work and becoming aware and showing up in the practices and I'm checking them all off and they're not doing anything and...

Meaghan (51:20): They're all done, you wanna see my agenda? It's all, I've done it all, the embodiment, the crying, the shaking it off, the shaking my ass, the anger, the crying in the pillow, it's all done, it's click, click, click, click, Yes, keep going.

Milena (51:26): Mm-hmm. Exactly. That's the thing is that this is all that's also part of this. And like, you're there today. I was there two days ago. And now today I'm able to show up in this place, but had we recorded this 48 hours ago, I would be where you're at. You know what I mean? So, that's the thing, honouring the full spectrum. It's honouring the full spectrum of what it is to be human and what it is to have awareness, have awareness of, know, I know where I want to be. I know what to do, especially the, know what to do. That's, that's the part that does it for me is, you know, when you're in this process of becoming more self-aware, of learning how to hold space for yourself, learning how to support the nervous system.

Like, this is also a big part of both of our work. Well, all of our work actually. And so it's just kind of like, it's the, know what to do. It's just, it's not happening. It's not happening right now. And that's also part of it and that's the beauty of being in sister circles. When you feel like that, that is exactly when you're supposed to go. That is exactly the invitation to be held by women that can mirror and reflect that love and compassion to you because it's not even accessible to you. And even if you're in circle and you're being held and supported for whatever it is that you're moving through that's causing this state of like of I can't even, that's not even acceptable or like accessible to me.

Sometimes it's even in that, I can't even receive it from others. And that's okay. But to still be held when you are in that space and not be alone, even if that what's being reflected to you or the love that's being poured into you, it's hard for you to receive. It's knowing that you are worthy of it. It's witnessing the ways that these women are showing up for you.

And again, it's not, they're not showing up for you. So you can, it's not conditional. If I'm going to do this, so you can tell me how good of a person I am for showing up for you. It's, I'm going to show up for you because I, I'm holding love in this container and for what you're moving through. Cause it's honoring my own humanity too. Like we are all the things that you're experiencing right now. I've experienced a flavor of it or I'm experiencing it right now. I'm just, it's at a deeper, there's a, there's another depth to it.

So it's, these are the moments, especially when it's not accessible for us to give to ourselves, when it's not accessible for us to receive sometimes even just being in an environment where that love and compassion is present.

Through the natural law of diffusion energetically, which I just made up right now, it will, listen, listen, listen, it's fine. It's a Venusian method. It will eventually, it integrates, it integrates subconsciously that love and just being in the environment where that energy is present, there will be some things that you will receive from it to the capacity that you can receive it.

Meaghan (54:19): I was like, I don't know.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (54:36): Yeah, and it's in that tight, uncomfortable space that rebirth happens that actually allows for the expansion. So it can feel really heavy and dense energetically. ⁓ And that can sometimes reflect back into the world as like taking two steps backwards. Like I was fine two days ago, everything was going so perfectly. Now what's happening today? Like a shit hit the fan, everything's going haywire. And it's just, it's almost poetic and beautiful. It's your body's way of dissolving things that are no longer serving you so that you can expand to the higher frequency to give yourself the opportunity to feel, move it through the body, let it out, to arrive to a higher frequency to then connect with that frequency so then you in this higher state, in this expanded state, will attract all the things that you actually want. And so I know that goes more into theory and less into somatics, but ultimately it's for the highest good. It's for the highest good of you and it brings us back to kind of surrender.

We surrender. This is how I feel right now and that is perfect for right now because it's showing me what I need to feel. It's making me face certain things. It's giving me rest when I need rest. It's giving you everything that you need right now in this moment. it's the real trust and surrender is knowing that it's not permanent. This is not a permanent state. Nothing is permanent. Happiness isn't permanent. Sadness isn't permanent.

None of it is permanent. It is an ebb and a flow. And when we can accept that as a basic law, we can continue to see the light at the other side of the tunnel. And then that's where our checklists and our protocols and our practices and our, you know, our expansion and our new neural pathways when they can all come into play. But this will this will always be the case. This is this is life. This is the ebb and flow of life.

Milena (56:32): I want to say I feel like the most impactful moments of my life and it's crazy because I could viscerally remember these words is I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And those are the moments where I've shown up for myself in ways that I never have before. And it took me getting really, really uncomfortable, really uncomfortable of I can't even bear to live another day in this human experience in the way

Steph - The Souls' Haven (56:41): Yeah.

Milena (57:02): That I am experiencing, in the ways that I am creating it for myself as well. And so that is also powerful and sometimes for some big shifts to happen. Because again, we are creatures of habit, like our brains, they love the predictable future, like they love the habitual behaviours. And so sometimes it really takes to get so uncomfortable and to like reach that place of like darkness.

Because I feel like for me it's I don't care and then it's no, no, no, no, I can't do this anymore. Like that's my threshold. And when I get to the I can't, I can't even exist in this reality anymore. That is what has sparked spontaneous and big changes in my life. And then again, it's obviously sustaining them, but that that discomfort has been that initial just kind of like push. punch in the face that I needed to create some like very powerful and empowering changes that needed to happen. And I do want to also Steph, while we have you here and you've already mentioned it, is the idea of divine law.

And, so I do want to ask you, what does divine law mean to you and how has aligning with it brought you into deeper liberation and surrender in your path?

Steph - The Souls' Haven (58:25): Hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Divine law initially felt very much like a step-by-step from a book at first. Okay, there are laws that supersede manmade laws that there's energies that govern a bit like when you're in ninth grade and you start with physics, you're like, okay, there's stuff happening behind the scenes. And it's just, it's expanded from there to accepting that there's this invisible architecture of life and that there is an intelligence and a oneness and a wholeness that moves through everything. And so for me, trusting in the divine laws and aligning with the divine laws means really going with the flow rather than forcing anything, knowing that there's a rhythm, that there's a timing to all things, that there's a season for everything.

And trusting that the divine laws, unlike the manmade laws, are without ego. That they work for the veterence of everyone. And so by leaning into this alignment, I just, yeah, like I feel like deeply like liberated and it's the root of my faith and my trust. To not feel like I have to struggle against life, but rather just kind of show up for whatever's happening in that moment. In the best way that I can, however I can.

Meaghan (59:49): Thank you.

Milena (59:51): Yeah, and I feel like that belief is also what supports the surrender. It's the trusting in the fact that you were being held and you were being supported and that things are orchestrating for you despite the fact that they may be difficult lessons, uncomfortable lessons and honouring that. And I feel like something that was super powerful that you shared with me was, you know, in the moments that I was sharing, just challenging lessons that were coming through in real time when we were connected, you would just always bring me back to this honouring. Like, how can we honour even this discomfort? Like, how is that discomfort still sacred? And that actually, that re-framed something in me where it allowed me to just be more open in Moments that I was going through discomfort or meeting resistance because I'm like, right, right

I can either resist it and be like, I hate this, this feels so shit. What's the point of feeling this? do I feel like, why am I feeling this way when I'm feeling it over this thing that doesn't even actually matter in the grand scheme of things? But it's when I'm able to honour it and see it as sacred, there's more of a curiosity, there's more of an openness. And that's where I find that that's a beautiful way. It's a doorway in of like, oof, I don't like this.

But it is still sacred and how can I honour it and what it's teaching me or what it's showing in me. And yeah, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for that perspective. Yeah, thank you, Steph.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (1:01:34): Yeah, I think it's really just remembering that what we put our focus on is what grows and what moves. And so in a moment when we're having an emotion arise, for example, to put your focus on that emotion and just see it, it will allow it to move rather than, yeah, rather than then focusing on a story that is not serving. Let's focus on the emotion, let's focus on the feeling, let's focus on what's coming up right now in that moment.

And what it means to be human and what it means to be living in the body. And I think that is kind of a divine law at the end of the day as well. It's a divine law that we're human. It's a divine law that we're here to experience. It's a divine law that everything is messy. It's a divine law that what we focus on is what we attract. ⁓ Something else was coming to me while I was saying that. ⁓ Yeah.

Milena (1:02:38): So, I feel like we are nearing the end of our conversation and one thing that we've been prompting any of our guest speakers to share is, mean, with Venusian Womb, the entire foundation of what we're creating here is opening up this dream fields, opening up this quantum fields where there is infinite possibilities to dream what it is that you are aligning with in your reality of what it is that you want to bring forward through creation, through co-creation, through connection. And I mean, with all that being said, I did want to ask Steph, and I know Meaghan, we've been curious to see like, is a dream that you are currently manifesting into the world and that you are connecting to within the dream field?

Steph - The Souls' Haven (1:03:29): Yeah, wow. I think one thing is definitely the soul's haven and creating a space where people can come and connect in their truth, whatever that looks like. Aligning with that dream has meant saying goodbye to so many other identities. So many other things that I thought I was supposed to do, where I was supposed to be in life, it meant ultimately surrendering and following my heart and really leading from a place of heart.

Which has required deep, trust, deep, deep, trust. So if it feels good in the body and it resonates, trusting that that's the direction that I'm meant to go in. And when other things crumble away, leaning into the fact that they served me while they did and by them dissolving, it creates space for something new. ⁓ So yeah, so what I'm leaning into right now is a trust in myself and a trust in ⁓ the belief that we're meant to come together, we're not meant to be alone. We are meant to be one with community, we are meant to be one with each other. We are one with each other, but that's a whole other podcast conversation. ⁓ So yeah, so that's what I am, that's what I'm creating right now and, and co-creating really, because every immersion, every experience, every retreat, it's a bunch of souls coming together, creating a beautiful sacred container of exchange, of freedom, of trust, of surrender, of what it means to be human. And so that's kind of the dream right now. And in terms of honouring myself and recognizing myself and going into places that have felt really uncomfortable, it's kind of owning the role of being a facilitator as well. 

Not taking that shy kind of backseat and saying, you know, I am just this, but that I can, that I should follow my heart and if it feels good and it feels right, that it's okay to lean into it without judging myself or having crazy expectations for myself and just to go with the flow of, yeah, what the world is reflecting back to me. And right now that's, yeah, it's holding space and it's facilitating spaces.

Milena (1:05:53): Yeah, thank you so much Steph, for sharing and also for just the perspective, the perspective that you've shared with each of us, the ways that you've held us to get curious, to get curious about life, about our personal initiations and experiences. And it was just so incredibly powerful to be in your presence and to be held by you and to be held by your space and just witnessing the ways that you are bringing this dream of yours into fruition and being able to just experience even just like a little bit of it was so incredibly healing. And yeah, we are so grateful for this connection, for this conversation, for the perspective that you bring. And I mean, really, I think the invitation from this conversation for us and for everyone listening is to just really continue to put this into practice.

Put into practice to recognize that this is a new way of being to recognize that, you know, there is light and there is darkness in this world. There are injustices that are happening and there is also a whole lot of love and hope that is moving through the collective through all of us and that, you know, while we may not be able to control the state of the world, we can control our own state of being. And it's not even about controlling. It's really just how can we become more aware? How can we become more empowered?

How can we become more connected to our heart, bringing more coherence between the mind and the body and bringing more love and compassion into our day to day, to ourselves, to others. And it's gonna be messy, it's gonna look messy, but I mean, that could still be the intention and honoring that intention in whatever ways it actually unfolds and recognizing that, you know, our soul's haven, like this haven, this sanctuary, this frequency is something that we are able to create within ourselves wherever we are. Like we are the haven. And so it's just kind of like when the world is seemingly scary and confusing, it's how can we kind of create this space of home and sanctity within ourselves.

It's a practice. And I think that we've laid out some very helpful resources and just some guidance of how to go about doing that and recognizing that it's helpful. It's helpful to have all these things that we spoke about and also community. How can we now begin to really hone in this state of being with community and who are the people that are also coming into the state of being and surrounding yourself with those kinds of people?

That's also frequency, energy, it's contagious. And so when we are able to put ourselves also in spaces and be held by people that are able to resonate as well with this and this truth and this love and compassion, it makes it more accessible. And then the more accessible we make it, the more that it becomes just our way of being. And so this is how we are also co-creating our reality and recognizing that there's all the things like it's a full spectrum out in this world, but what are we, what are we really connecting to and creating from. So thank you so much Stephanie and if there's anything Meaghan that you would like to add.

Meaghan (1:09:19): Well, I'd love to add that if anyone would like to reach Steph, we're gonna have in our show notes in the podcast description, how you can get in touch with her, a little bit, her little description. We also wanna thank you all for listening, for tuning in on this Friday or whatever time of the week you're listening. Go check out our website where we have our womb circles that are posted. We have some blog posts, the transcripts for the episodes, and we'll see you next Friday.

Milena (1:09:44): Yay! Thank you! Nice.

Steph - The Souls' Haven (1:09:45): Thank you.